“No one should be surprised that the Iranian Revolution took a religious form. The fact that God appears on almost every page does not reflect religious convictions of my own, nor for that matter any conscious design at all, but simply arises from the circumstance that in any description of the fabric of Iranian life God is an endlessly repeated motif.” — Terence O’Donnell*
Ambassador John Limbert is a career foreign service official who was taken hostage by student radicals in Iran in 1979 and held for 444 days. He emerged in Washington as a voice of reason and dialogue on Iran. The interview has been edited regarding the order of the anecdotes and observations.
Fariba Amini: This year will be the 46th anniversary of the Iranian revolution. What are your thoughts? We used to say that in six months, things will change. Well, they didn’t. What happened and why?
John Limbert: In the summer of 1979, six months after the revolution, often hearing the question, “When are THEY leaving?” Events in Iran for the last 5 decades have defied expectations. Few expected the Shah to fall when and how he did; few expected a revolution fueled by militant political Shi’ism; few expected that Iran would become a theocracy with direct rule by clerics; and few expected that Iran would go in the brutal, harsh, and authoritarian direction it did. Why? The militant clerics and their allies who followed Khomeini’s vision had a plan and they followed it. They took advantage of weaknesses and divisions among their rivals. They took advantage of miscalculations by others.
You were one of the hostages in Iran during the Revolution. Can you tell us about your experience.
John Limbert: As the saying goes, مثنوی هفتاد من کاغذ دارد.. [Rumi’s long poem the] Mathnavi had a hundred pages to write. It’s worth noting that many of the hostage takers are now admitting that they made a big mistake and what they did has brought enormous suffering to their compatriots.
Fariba Amini: Khamenei [now Iran’s clerical Leader] was a young cleric when he paid a visit to you and the other hostages at the Embassy. He became the Supreme Leader later. What did you tell him during that visit?
John Limbert: Khamene’i visited us in April 1980. My message to him, in diplomatic language, was “You totally and royally f….ed up.” In my view I was still an accredited diplomat, so I needed to convey that message politely. As the saying goes, you cut off heads with cotton. I’m sure you can find a video of the visit on the net somewhere.
Photo by Fariba Amini.
Fariba Amini: In these days, many pro-monarchists blame President Carter or the 57th niners as they are called for the Iranian Revolution. What are your thoughts about this allegation? I know that we, Iranians always blame “others” for what happens in our country. Who is to blame?
John Limbert: I believe it was the poet Shahriyar who composed the famous line از ماست که بر ماست : “Whatever happens it is our [own] doing.” I don’t agree with those who blame President Carter, but I can understand their view considering Iranians’ experience with interference by foreign powers. President Carter was not well served by his advisors about Iran. One told him that Khomeini’s victory would bring democracy. Another told him that victory would bring the communists to power.
Fariba Amini: You have always been about dialogue with Iran. Do you think that would be possible under a Trump administration?
John Limbert: To quote the Athenian Alcibiades, “At some point, somebody has to trust somebody”. US-Iran relations are unfortunately a partisan issue on both sides. It should not be, since they involve national interests on both sides. And those interests are not served by the prevailing hostility. There must be a better way. Getting there is hard. Trump could do it, since he would love to claim credit.
Fariba Amini: As a seasoned diplomat under many administrations, do you think we will see peace in the Middle East?
John Limbert: It’s hard to see now under current conditions, but those conditions could change quickly and in unexpected directions. As for predictions, I will paraphrase the late Harvard professor J.K. Galbraith who said that the only purpose of prediction is give astrology a good name.
Fariba Amini: What do you think about the situation in this country?
John Limbert: Very sad. We are in for some very tough times. I am hopeful that our system is strong enough to resist the attacks of those who would ignore what makes this country special and impose their views on the rest of us. The good news is that the current group provides excellent material for our comedians.
You wrote your first book, Shiraz in the Age of Hafiz. What prompted you to write this book?
The book started as my Ph.D. thesis, which I finished in 1973. As a historian I was curious less about Hafez’s poetry, and more about the setting (fourteenth century Shiraz) in which he composed his amazing verses. I spent four years in Shiraz doing the research. A few years later my good friend Professor Richard Bulliet encouraged me to turn it into a book and helped me find a publisher (University of Washington Press). In 1979 I was revising the work for publication when I had to stop work while a prisoner in Tehran. In the 1980s and 90s, I found the new work-processing technology a great help in preparing the book. The book found its true home when the late Homayoun Sanatizadeh prepared a superb Persian translation of the work.
Fariba Amini: You met your wife in Iran when you were a peace corps volunteer in Iran. How was your experience during those times. I believe you lived in Sanandaj.
John Limbert: Yes, I was assigned as an English teacher in Sanandaj. My wife’s family is Sanandaji, and her father was a well-respected doctor in the city. She and I both taught in high schools there. I don’t think I was a great teacher, but those years were the beginning of a life-long fascination with the Persian language and with Iranian history and culture.
Fariba Amini: You also met Terence O’Donnell who had lived in Iran, and I believe you used some of his books in your classes at the Naval Academy. You also dedicated your first book to him.
Can you tell us more about him.
When we first went to Shiraz in 1968, until we found an apartment, we stayed for a few weeks at Terry’s Garden outside the city. I still remember spending sizdah-be-dar at that garden and sitting with Parvaneh’s family near his fireplace while her niece sang some beautiful Kurdish songs. In my teaching, I used his beautiful story “The Holy Men of Isfahan” to illustrate the diversity and the fragile balance of Iranian society.
John Limbert is a former U.S. diplomat who joined the foreign service in 1973. He was an official at the U.S. Embassy in Tehran in 1979. Limbert was one of the 52 hostages who were held for 444 days at the American Embassy in Tehran by radicals. He had postings in various Middle Eastern countries and served as Ambassador to Mauritania with postings in various  Middle Eastern countries. In 2009, he was briefly appointed as deputy assistant secretary of State for Iran under the Obama administration. Limbert taught at the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis before retiring. He is the author of three nonfiction books: Iran: At War with History; Shiraz in the Age of Hafez: The Glory of a Medieval Persian City; Negotiating with Iran: Wrestling the Ghosts of History.He has also co-authored a novel with Mark Grossman, called Believers: Love and Death in Tehran. He speaks fluent Persian.
Photo by Fariba Amini.
*Terence O’Donnell was an American teacher and writer who went to Iran in the 1960’s. He taught English in Shiraz and Isfahan and settled in an abandoned orchard in Shiraz (Garden of the Brave in War) which he turned into a running farm. He wrote a few evocative books, beautifully describing the Iranian society. He went back to Portland, Oregon, his birthplace where he died. A plaque in front of the Oregon Historical Society reads, “Friend of Persians.” That inscription was his wish.
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